Talk:Filesystems - Revision history

DoggoBit: /* #SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement */ Reply

2025-06-08T15:35:36Z

#SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement: Reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:35, 8 June 2025
Line 25:		Line 25:
	:::::::In my opinion, the nixos wiki should document concepts on the nix ecosystem and link to official sources for anything that isn't in the nix ecosystem. The goal here is not repeat information that is documented elsewhere. More information is not always better as it can clutter the wiki page and require more maintenance to keep the information in sync with official sources.		:::::::In my opinion, the nixos wiki should document concepts on the nix ecosystem and link to official sources for anything that isn't in the nix ecosystem. The goal here is not repeat information that is documented elsewhere. More information is not always better as it can clutter the wiki page and require more maintenance to keep the information in sync with official sources.
	:::::::In this example, we should give a brief description of what discard is, link to the official source, and show how to use the discard mount option on NixOS. [[User:Pigs\|Pigs]] ([[User talk:Pigs\|talk]]) 05:15, 8 June 2025 (UTC)		:::::::In this example, we should give a brief description of what discard is, link to the official source, and show how to use the discard mount option on NixOS. [[User:Pigs\|Pigs]] ([[User talk:Pigs\|talk]]) 05:15, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
			::::::::We are in principle on the same page here. What I mean by ''more information is always better'' is that other editors that are not subject matter experts in this area (e.g. me) can always edit an article ''down'' (or move information to subpages, etc.) to make the page more readable. But we'll ''almost'' never have the knowledge to add information in.
			::::::::Regarding links to the Arch Wiki, my ''hunch'' is if the Arch Wiki needed to have info about a topic, it's important enough for a user that we might need to have info too. Maybe not in the same for, maybe not to the same extent, but at least ''something''.
			::::::::Thanks for your awesome work on this! [[User:DoggoBit\|DoggoBit]] ([[User talk:DoggoBit\|talk]]) 15:35, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

Pigs: /* #SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement */ Reply

2025-06-08T05:15:33Z

#SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement: Reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:15, 8 June 2025
Line 23:		Line 23:
	:::::It can get complicated in the end. If the goal of this wiki is focusing on explaining how to accomplish something in nix-specific way, it would be beneficial to just link Arch Wiki that covers nearly everything when on this matter. Or if i am misunderstanding the purpose of `nixos` wiki, then we need to provide more details in this section. For example, btrfs page does not cover fstrim and `discard=async`, so we need to either be exhaustive, or not go beyond the sufficient minimum. Please, coordinate my understanding [[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 18:03, 6 June 2025 (UTC)		:::::It can get complicated in the end. If the goal of this wiki is focusing on explaining how to accomplish something in nix-specific way, it would be beneficial to just link Arch Wiki that covers nearly everything when on this matter. Or if i am misunderstanding the purpose of `nixos` wiki, then we need to provide more details in this section. For example, btrfs page does not cover fstrim and `discard=async`, so we need to either be exhaustive, or not go beyond the sufficient minimum. Please, coordinate my understanding [[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 18:03, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
	::::::Without knowing literally anything about this context, I am seconding @[[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]]'s point here, more information is better than less information. At the very least let's write up an article/section on what the two discards do, and link it here. [[User:DoggoBit\|DoggoBit]] ([[User talk:DoggoBit\|talk]]) 22:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)		::::::Without knowing literally anything about this context, I am seconding @[[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]]'s point here, more information is better than less information. At the very least let's write up an article/section on what the two discards do, and link it here. [[User:DoggoBit\|DoggoBit]] ([[User talk:DoggoBit\|talk]]) 22:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
			:::::::In my opinion, the nixos wiki should document concepts on the nix ecosystem and link to official sources for anything that isn't in the nix ecosystem. The goal here is not repeat information that is documented elsewhere. More information is not always better as it can clutter the wiki page and require more maintenance to keep the information in sync with official sources.
			:::::::In this example, we should give a brief description of what discard is, link to the official source, and show how to use the discard mount option on NixOS. [[User:Pigs\|Pigs]] ([[User talk:Pigs\|talk]]) 05:15, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

DoggoBit: /* #SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement */ Reply

2025-06-07T22:32:13Z

#SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement: Reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:32, 7 June 2025
Line 22:		Line 22:
	:::::Continuous and periodic trim modes can be enabled simultaneously, this scenario is covered by the responsible developers. I think mentioning `discard=sync` as it is right now is unnecessary.		:::::Continuous and periodic trim modes can be enabled simultaneously, this scenario is covered by the responsible developers. I think mentioning `discard=sync` as it is right now is unnecessary.
	:::::It can get complicated in the end. If the goal of this wiki is focusing on explaining how to accomplish something in nix-specific way, it would be beneficial to just link Arch Wiki that covers nearly everything when on this matter. Or if i am misunderstanding the purpose of `nixos` wiki, then we need to provide more details in this section. For example, btrfs page does not cover fstrim and `discard=async`, so we need to either be exhaustive, or not go beyond the sufficient minimum. Please, coordinate my understanding [[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 18:03, 6 June 2025 (UTC)		:::::It can get complicated in the end. If the goal of this wiki is focusing on explaining how to accomplish something in nix-specific way, it would be beneficial to just link Arch Wiki that covers nearly everything when on this matter. Or if i am misunderstanding the purpose of `nixos` wiki, then we need to provide more details in this section. For example, btrfs page does not cover fstrim and `discard=async`, so we need to either be exhaustive, or not go beyond the sufficient minimum. Please, coordinate my understanding [[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 18:03, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
			::::::Without knowing literally anything about this context, I am seconding @[[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]]'s point here, more information is better than less information. At the very least let's write up an article/section on what the two discards do, and link it here. [[User:DoggoBit\|DoggoBit]] ([[User talk:DoggoBit\|talk]]) 22:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

Pigeon: /* #SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement */ Reply

2025-06-06T18:03:14Z

#SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement: Reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:03, 6 June 2025
Line 19:		Line 19:
	:::Also it seems that <code>discard=sync</code> is [https://btrfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Trim.html#trim-discard BTRFS-specific]. From what i can see after doing a bit of googling continuous trim is commonly enabled with <code>discard</code> option so we should just not mention <code>discard=sync</code> in that section. [[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 17:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)		:::Also it seems that <code>discard=sync</code> is [https://btrfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Trim.html#trim-discard BTRFS-specific]. From what i can see after doing a bit of googling continuous trim is commonly enabled with <code>discard</code> option so we should just not mention <code>discard=sync</code> in that section. [[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 17:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
	::::I think it is reasonable to leave `discard=sync` as a user might see `discard=async` and think they should remove it. [[User:Pigs\|Pigs]] ([[User talk:Pigs\|talk]]) 17:43, 6 June 2025 (UTC)		::::I think it is reasonable to leave `discard=sync` as a user might see `discard=async` and think they should remove it. [[User:Pigs\|Pigs]] ([[User talk:Pigs\|talk]]) 17:43, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
			:::::the thing is that `discard=async` is also a continuous trim. It addresses main problems that synchronous trim has, but is still generally not recommended. Even Fedora, one of the main btrfs adopters, uses fstrim and does not set `discard=async` by default.
			:::::Continuous and periodic trim modes can be enabled simultaneously, this scenario is covered by the responsible developers. I think mentioning `discard=sync` as it is right now is unnecessary.
			:::::It can get complicated in the end. If the goal of this wiki is focusing on explaining how to accomplish something in nix-specific way, it would be beneficial to just link Arch Wiki that covers nearly everything when on this matter. Or if i am misunderstanding the purpose of `nixos` wiki, then we need to provide more details in this section. For example, btrfs page does not cover fstrim and `discard=async`, so we need to either be exhaustive, or not go beyond the sufficient minimum. Please, coordinate my understanding [[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 18:03, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Pigs: /* #SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement */ Reply

2025-06-06T17:43:29Z

#SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement: Reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:43, 6 June 2025
Line 18:		Line 18:
	:::Exactly. A typo on my side.		:::Exactly. A typo on my side.
	:::Also it seems that <code>discard=sync</code> is [https://btrfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Trim.html#trim-discard BTRFS-specific]. From what i can see after doing a bit of googling continuous trim is commonly enabled with <code>discard</code> option so we should just not mention <code>discard=sync</code> in that section. [[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 17:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)		:::Also it seems that <code>discard=sync</code> is [https://btrfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Trim.html#trim-discard BTRFS-specific]. From what i can see after doing a bit of googling continuous trim is commonly enabled with <code>discard</code> option so we should just not mention <code>discard=sync</code> in that section. [[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 17:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
			::::I think it is reasonable to leave `discard=sync` as a user might see `discard=async` and think they should remove it. [[User:Pigs\|Pigs]] ([[User talk:Pigs\|talk]]) 17:43, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Pigeon: /* #SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement */ Reply

2025-06-06T17:24:48Z

#SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement: Reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:24, 6 June 2025
Line 15:		Line 15:
	::Good catch, I updated the section.		::Good catch, I updated the section.
	::On point number 3, I am seeing that on btrfs `discard=async` is what is set to as default. [[User:Pigs\|Pigs]] ([[User talk:Pigs\|talk]]) 16:44, 6 June 2025 (UTC)		::On point number 3, I am seeing that on btrfs `discard=async` is what is set to as default. [[User:Pigs\|Pigs]] ([[User talk:Pigs\|talk]]) 16:44, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
			:::> On point number 3, I am seeing that on btrfs `discard=async` is what is set to as default.
			:::Exactly. A typo on my side.
			:::Also it seems that <code>discard=sync</code> is [https://btrfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Trim.html#trim-discard BTRFS-specific]. From what i can see after doing a bit of googling continuous trim is commonly enabled with <code>discard</code> option so we should just not mention <code>discard=sync</code> in that section. [[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 17:24, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Pigs: /* #SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement */ Reply

2025-06-06T16:44:41Z

#SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement: Reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:44, 6 June 2025
Line 13:		Line 13:
	:<code>Do not update inode access times on this filesystem (e.g. for faster access on the news spool to speed up news servers). This works for all inode types (directories too),</code> <u>so it implies nodiratime.</u>		:<code>Do not update inode access times on this filesystem (e.g. for faster access on the news spool to speed up news servers). This works for all inode types (directories too),</code> <u>so it implies nodiratime.</u>
	:Hence everything stated above renders the whole [[Filesystems#SSD TRIM support]] section mostly redundant. I am a wiki noob so i hesitate take any actions myself. What do you think? [[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 16:07, 6 June 2025 (UTC)		:Hence everything stated above renders the whole [[Filesystems#SSD TRIM support]] section mostly redundant. I am a wiki noob so i hesitate take any actions myself. What do you think? [[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 16:07, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
			::Good catch, I updated the section.
			::On point number 3, I am seeing that on btrfs `discard=async` is what is set to as default. [[User:Pigs\|Pigs]] ([[User talk:Pigs\|talk]]) 16:44, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Pigeon: /* #SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement */ Reply

2025-06-06T16:07:23Z

#SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement: Reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:07, 6 June 2025
Line 8:		Line 8:

	[[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 15:54, 6 June 2025 (UTC)		[[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 15:54, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

			:Also, from <code>man mount(8):</code>
			:<code>noatime</code>
			:<code>Do not update inode access times on this filesystem (e.g. for faster access on the news spool to speed up news servers). This works for all inode types (directories too),</code> <u>so it implies nodiratime.</u>
			:Hence everything stated above renders the whole [[Filesystems#SSD TRIM support]] section mostly redundant. I am a wiki noob so i hesitate take any actions myself. What do you think? [[User:Pigeon\|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon\|talk]]) 16:07, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Pigeon: /* #SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement */ new section

2025-06-06T15:54:08Z

#SSD TRIM support definitely needs improvement: new section

New page

== #SSD_TRIM_support definitely needs improvement ==

1) [https://nixos.org/manual/nixos/stable/options#opt-services.fstrim.enable Periodic trim is already enabled by default]

2) No mention of differences between periodic and continuous trim. Continuous trim is often not recommended.

3) On btrfs, discard=sync is enabled by default and using <code>discard</code> (or <code>discard=sync</code>) is discouraged

[[User:Pigeon|Pigeon]] ([[User talk:Pigeon|talk]]) 15:54, 6 June 2025 (UTC)