Template talk:Nixos:package: Difference between revisions

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:As for the description part, I would say in 99% of the time when this template is used, it's used either in the corresponding package's article, or in a context where adding the package description is trivial.

:For the second point, I think we should definitely be improving the main page itself to point the user to the search functionality as an option, as well as improving [[NixOS search]]. And on top of that, we probably want a [[First steps using NixOS]] page or similar to really drive this point home.

:For the third point, I don't think a package's current usage is an argument for or against its deletion (other than on technicality: we'd of course want to modify all pages using this template to point to the new one). [[User:DoggoBit|DoggoBit]] ([[User talk:DoggoBit|talk]]) 17:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

:For the third point, I don't think a package's current usage is an argument for or against its deletion (other than on technicality: we'd of course want to modify all pages using this template to point to the new one). However, do note, it's only used in [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Nixos:package|24 pages]], hardly an edit burden. [[User:DoggoBit|DoggoBit]] ([[User talk:DoggoBit|talk]]) 17:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

::When I was writing my reply I kept mistakenly was thinking of the {{:nixos:option}} template which is much more of a useful and popular template. My mistake.

::You are right that currently linking to a package on search.nixos.org does not provide as much information as it should. (It's more on the package maintainers to provide useful descriptions (like the {{nixos:package|docker}} maintainers do) than it is of a missing feature from search.nixos.org.

::I still hold my position that linking to {{nixos:package|ghc}} is a way better user experience than linking to {{Nixpkgs Link|pkgs/development/compilers/ghc/common-hadrian.nix}} both in terms of a maintainer and as an end user.

::To me, linking to source code is a bad option when there is a friendly interface that displays all the relevant information such as '''programs provided''', '''current version''', '''outputs''', and if a user wants to, there is a link to the source code on the search result. How fast can you find that information on the Nixpkgs link? The version isn't even mentioned in the source code of the main file for GHC. [[User:Pigs|Pigs]] ([[User talk:Pigs|talk]]) 21:31, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I'm 100% with you on this, and {{tl|nixos:option}} is nowhere near being at risk of not making the cut here haha (other than a saner renaming). That template is a million times more useful than this one.

:::I'm thinking here very much from a user perspective: If I'm being served a link off the wiki, I would want it to contain ''more'' information than the wiki itself, right? Otherwise there's no point linking somewhere external in the first place. That's why I don't think this template makes sense with the current search interface at all, it's ''less useful'' than the page it's being used on. However, linking to the nixpkgs file is ''more usefu'' than the page, because the user can see the additional build options that package may have.

:::If we're talking about having ''a link'' to the corresponding Nix package entry, we could implement this via {{tl|infobox application}} (or the corresponding one) further down the line [[User:DoggoBit|DoggoBit]] ([[User talk:DoggoBit|talk]]) 21:55, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

::::But linking to search.nixos.org '''DOES''' provide more information on packages than linking to the nixpkgs source code. The search query result includes the link to the source code AND more. See my example above with the <code>ghc</code> package.

::::It is useful to the end user as it '''DOES''' include more information than what is on a wiki page, such as the current version. We wouldn't want to include information like package versions on the wiki since they can update very frequently. Would be cool to maybe auto-generate an {{:infobox application}} with the nixpkg information. I've toyed around with this idea before and have gone as so far to make a prototype mediawiki plugin that does it.

::::<br>

::::Another example that I have used {{:nixos:package}} in the past has been linking to package sets. For example, {{nixos:package|haskellPackages.*}}. What am I suppose to do here? Link to the nixpkg file that contains all the haskellPackages that is so big it can't even render on github? https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/nixos-25.05/pkgs/development/haskell-modules/hackage-packages.nix

::::<br>

::::This isn't most useful template, but it still has use cases and adds value to some wiki pages. I'm up for replacing this template with something else that contains the same information as search.nixos.org has on packages, but as I am aware that information is only able to be generated from evaluating the nix expressions in nixpkgs (which search.nixos.org does and stores it in an elasticache instance). [[User:Pigs|Pigs]] ([[User talk:Pigs|talk]]) 01:56, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::Fair enough, you do bring up good points here, especially regarding package sets. I still think there isn't enough new information to justify leading the reader off the wiki. However, I'd be fine if we decided to keep it (and rename it to something saner :)) ). I'll leave the notice for the 30 days, and see if anyone else has strong thoughts on this. Otherwise, we can keep it and I'll have a look through where it's used, rephrasing or reformatting to improve the surrounding context at least.

:::::Thanks for your thoughts! Super helpful stuff. [[User:DoggoBit|DoggoBit]] ([[User talk:DoggoBit|talk]]) 13:24, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 :As for the description part, I would say in 99% of the time when this template is used, it's used either in the corresponding package's article, or in a context where adding the package description is trivial.
 :For the second point, I think we should definitely be improving the main page itself to point the user to the search functionality as an option, as well as improving [[NixOS search]]. And on top of that, we probably want a [[First steps using NixOS]] page or similar to really drive this point home.
-:For the third point, I don't think a package's current usage is an argument for or against its deletion (other than on technicality: we'd of course want to modify all pages using this template to point to the new one). [[User:DoggoBit|DoggoBit]] ([[User talk:DoggoBit|talk]]) 17:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
+:For the third point, I don't think a package's current usage is an argument for or against its deletion (other than on technicality: we'd of course want to modify all pages using this template to point to the new one). However, do note, it's only used in [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Nixos:package|24 pages]], hardly an edit burden. [[User:DoggoBit|DoggoBit]] ([[User talk:DoggoBit|talk]]) 17:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
+::When I was writing my reply I kept mistakenly was thinking of the {{:nixos:option}} template which is much more of a useful and popular template. My mistake.
+::You are right that currently linking to a package on search.nixos.org does not provide as much information as it should. (It's more on the package maintainers to provide useful descriptions (like the {{nixos:package|docker}} maintainers do) than it is of a missing feature from search.nixos.org.
+::I still hold my position that linking to {{nixos:package|ghc}} is a way better user experience than linking to {{Nixpkgs Link|pkgs/development/compilers/ghc/common-hadrian.nix}} both in terms of a maintainer and as an end user.
+::To me, linking to source code is a bad option when there is a friendly interface that displays all the relevant information such as '''programs provided''', '''current version''', '''outputs''', and if a user wants to, there is a link to the source code on the search result. How fast can you find that information on the Nixpkgs link? The version isn't even mentioned in the source code of the main file for GHC. [[User:Pigs|Pigs]] ([[User talk:Pigs|talk]]) 21:31, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
+:::Yeah, I'm 100% with you on this, and {{tl|nixos:option}} is nowhere near being at risk of not making the cut here haha (other than a saner renaming). That template is a million times more useful than this one.
+:::I'm thinking here very much from a user perspective: If I'm being served a link off the wiki, I would want it to contain ''more'' information than the wiki itself, right? Otherwise there's no point linking somewhere external in the first place. That's why I don't think this template makes sense with the current search interface at all, it's ''less useful'' than the page it's being used on. However, linking to the nixpkgs file is ''more usefu'' than the page, because the user can see the additional build options that package may have.
+:::If we're talking about having ''a link'' to the corresponding Nix package entry, we could implement this via {{tl|infobox application}} (or the corresponding one) further down the line [[User:DoggoBit|DoggoBit]] ([[User talk:DoggoBit|talk]]) 21:55, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
+::::But linking to search.nixos.org '''DOES''' provide more information on packages than linking to the nixpkgs source code. The search query result includes the link to the source code AND more. See my example above with the <code>ghc</code> package.
+::::It is useful to the end user as it '''DOES''' include more information than what is on a wiki page, such as the current version. We wouldn't want to include information like package versions on the wiki since they can update very frequently. Would be cool to maybe auto-generate an {{:infobox application}} with the nixpkg information. I've toyed around with this idea before and have gone as so far to make a prototype mediawiki plugin that does it.
+::::<br>
+::::Another example that I have used {{:nixos:package}} in the past has been linking to package sets. For example, {{nixos:package|haskellPackages.*}}. What am I suppose to do here? Link to the nixpkg file that contains all the haskellPackages that is so big it can't even render on github? https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/nixos-25.05/pkgs/development/haskell-modules/hackage-packages.nix
+::::<br>
+::::This isn't most useful template, but it still has use cases and adds value to some wiki pages. I'm up for replacing this template with something else that contains the same information as search.nixos.org has on packages, but as I am aware that information is only able to be generated from evaluating the nix expressions in nixpkgs (which search.nixos.org does and stores it in an elasticache instance). [[User:Pigs|Pigs]] ([[User talk:Pigs|talk]]) 01:56, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
+:::::Fair enough, you do bring up good points here, especially regarding package sets. I still think there isn't enough new information to justify leading the reader off the wiki. However, I'd be fine if we decided to keep it (and rename it to something saner :)) ). I'll leave the notice for the 30 days, and see if anyone else has strong thoughts on this. Otherwise, we can keep it and I'll have a look through where it's used, rephrasing or reformatting to improve the surrounding context at least.
+:::::Thanks for your thoughts! Super helpful stuff. [[User:DoggoBit|DoggoBit]] ([[User talk:DoggoBit|talk]]) 13:24, 9 June 2025 (UTC)